Meet and Confer Notes - Final
February 14, 2008
Administration:† President Potter, Provost Spitzer, Rex Veeder, Nancy Jessee, Kate Steffens, John Burgeson, Larry Chambers, Mitchell Rubinstein, Steve Ludwig, Kristi Tornquist, Patty Dyslin - notetaker
Faculty:† Judy Kilborn, John Palmer, JoAnn Gasparino, Michael Connaughton, David Warne, Bill Hudson, Balsy Kasi, Fred Hill, Robert C. Johnson, Frances Kayona, Michael Tripp
Approval of Minutes:††††††† January 17, 2008 Ė approved
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† January 31, 2008 Ė approved Ė subject to further modification
1a.†† Return to Title IV Ė (AD Ė 8/30/2008)
FA:† Weíll be ready to do that next time.
1b.††††† Diversity Plan Ė (AD Ė 11/01/2007)
FA:† President Potter, you would have received a copy of a document from the Faculty and Staff of Color Caucus. Actually it was directed to you.† On Tuesday the Faculty Senate endorsed the seven bulleted items concerning the Diversity Taskforce draft document and the note from Faculty and Staff of Color Caucus.† Faculty also asked the Meet and Confer team to request a more appropriate proportion of faculty on the Diversity Taskforce.† We were looking at the numbers and it would be possible we could have as few as one representative.† Weíre also concerned about the size of the working group.† Weíre not really wanting to make a huge group.† That might be a place for us to start talking.
AD:† What I take from feedback is that people are comfortable with the purpose of the group.† There was a question about the timeline and Iíd like to talk about that in a minute.† With respect to the composition, I am hearing two pretty contradictory messages.† One is, the group needs to be focused and smaller so it can actually get the work done.† The other is, make the group smaller but inclusive.† The list of people to be included is pretty long.† I really want the work to get done.† I want the process to be inclusive.† I want the product that is developed to represent the collective wisdom of the campus.† There may be some balance between the size of the group and the process we create to make sure that all voices are there.† We donít have to have everybody who wants a voice at the table for managing the work.† The one possibility is to build it so that everybody who wants a voice is on the team or we can engage in conversation across the next few weeks to get the smallest team we can and at the same time describe in writing a process which will address the needs for inclusion and engagement.† Iíd like to hear folks' thinking about that. †I donít have strong feelings; I just want it to work.
FA:† Last time we tried this, we got stuck in the balance between representation and functional size.† Itís something Iím sure all of us have an interest in Ė resolving what that appropriate mix and size might be.
AD:† I think that the last time, actually we were trying to get to the point that you were just describing.† There are so many people who want and need to have a voice in this that the small group needs to be charged with a specific written plan for consultation that is transparent to everyone.† Perhaps following some of the same models of the web site, documentation and that sort of thing, will, I think, allow us to move forward. Itís that agreement on a specific written plan for how we proceed with consultation that needs to be resolved.† Thatís just an observation.
AD:† Thatís a good thing and could be done this spring.† Thatís a good thought.
FA:† Perhaps the academic planning process would be a good model.† You would have a central committee that would be a sort of steering committee that would be a workable size and then have, perhaps, working groups that are comprised of people from some of those other groups.† We thought about the possibility of recommending that instead of a single IFO representative that we do our standard six representatives from the five colleges and so forth.† Then we thought, thatís going to make the committee thirty people.† Iíve been on thirty person committees and itís not the easiest way to get things done.† You know that.
AD:† What I want to hear is the wake of the sentiments on what to try to achieve in terms of design of the work group.† Is the general consensus that we should work towards a strategy that has a smaller working group with either subcommittees or an inclusion/consultation process that touches all of the voices?† Is that the general consensus?
FA:† I havenít heard anything that would be in opposition to that in Senate conversations and EC conversations and conversations with various groups who have strong concerns with this process.
AD:† One of the other things that was brought up in the feedback was trying to provide for compensation that fits the work plan.† One of the things that was suggested was that people be able to work through the summer being appropriately compensated.† Another issue that was brought up was the difference between the tools we have available with IFO members and those of MSUUASF members and other bargaining unit members in terms of time available for the task and wanting to make sure that for the people who did this work, space was created in their lives and schedules so that they can do this work on the timeline that we expect.† Itís serious work and substantial, so negotiating to ensure that there was time in a daily work schedule or extra compensation, or however we put that together, to support the people and give them the space in their lives they need to do the work.† Iím sympathetic to that.†
FA:† I know that that idea was spoken to in one of the bullet points that the Senate supported from the remarks from the Faculty and Staff of Color Caucus.† We know, historically, when we look back and have been trying to do this work, I think it really helps to have built-in space in people's schedules and certainly the compensation models are probably easier to understand with the IFO than with other bargaining units.† But I know thatís been a problem for the bargaining units, having space in their schedule that is recognized and supported by supervisors.† In some cases, supervisors have not been supportive of these efforts so I understand that you would be sensitive to that.
AD:† It all goes back to the care in building the teamÖ
AD:† And looking at it very closely to see that itís set up for success.
FA:† If the idea is to have a smaller working group, then the consultation should be extensive and broad so that everyone feels that they have a stake in this and that their ideas and points of view are being considered.† There also needs to be feedback and an interactive kind of process and that all parties will have an opportunity to have their input properly considered.
AD:† I would be inclined at this point to build a smallish team of 10-12 people, to build into the charge those parameters, and ask the team to develop that inclusive process during the spring.
FA:† It would be inclusive and reviewed.
AD:† Yes.† Right.† As you described.† The alternative is that I try, on my own, to develop a process and I donít think thatís a good idea.
FA:† The idea here is to establish the principles.† There are lots of other people who have a keen interest in this and we need to make sure that they know they are not being marginalized or excluded.† Iím afraid of only a few being approached to handle this thing.
AD:† Weíve amended the charge to include the principles that will drive the description of the process.
FA:† One other piece that it seems to me that the proposal speaks to, the proposal that weíve made and the responses that weíve gotten sometimes, include support for data gathering and so on.† To me this would be an important piece Iíve seen already in the academic planning process and the strategic planning process.† Working between being able to envision whatís needed and being able to ask for resources that are supported by people who understand to get data and have access.† Iím wondering if you can speak a little bit to the way in which you see the resources and the support, the administrative support, working out with this process.
AD:† Susan Mossí office will staff the team by clerical support, distribution of documents, scheduling and all that sort of stuff.† Lisa Fossí team in Institutional Effectiveness provide the data gathering assistance.† There are two staff offices to back up the team.
FA:† It sounds a little bit like a modified Delphi technique if weíre also identifying the strategies and protocols under which we manage ourselves in the future.† I think itís a wonderful time to start identifying the directions of the management and our vision.
FA:† We can certainly bring to Senate next time the ideas that were shared today and the feedback to move forward to Meet and Confer next time.
AD:† I wonít be able to take next steps until I finish the trip Iím going on which will be the week of the 26th or 27th.
FA:† Weíll leave this on the agenda.† Itís an item that will stay for a little bit.
1c.†††††† Article 22 Task Force Ė (FA Ė 02/01/2007)
FA:† I understand that there has been a meeting.
AD:† Yes.† We had a meeting on Tuesday and we have a sequence of meetings scheduled.† There are a couple of items we want to look at with regard to the task force.† One of the concerns that people have expressed about the promotion and tenure process has to do with that there is probably not sufficient time for departments to respond to people when they submit their materials to the department.† Because we have an opportunity, especially with the change in our academic calendar for next year, the group decided the first thing we would work on was to look at the calendar Ė the dates and deadlines that weíve got established for various processes and various steps in that process.† Thatís what weíve started to do.† Weíre also trying to align the dates so that the dates between the promotion calendar and tenure calendar are in alignment with one another.† Weíve begun to make some progress in doing that.† Weíre also looking at giving more time to departments to have an opportunity to respond to the materials that individuals submit to the department.† Weíll continue meeting.† If John or someone else wants to commentÖ
FA:† I thought we were off to a good start on organizing principles for the calendar and it will serve as a good way to make sure that the calendar supports the spirit of what Article 22 and 25 have to say in terms of the give and take of information and exchange of that information.
FA:† Iím happy to hear that weíre making progress and I look forward to hearing more.† I would like to leave this on the schedule.
2.† The Processes for Appointing FA Representatives to College and University-level Committees under the IFO/MnSCU Master Agreement Ė (FA Ė 10/18/2007)
FA:† I believe last time where we were was that work was apace and that we should see results soon.† Iím wondering if we have an update on that.
AD:† It has just been presented in the last several days to the Presidentís Council.† They are going to look at the information, give us feedback and we will make adjustments and then provide final approval before it comes to Meet and Confer.
FA:† Youíre expecting it will come later in the spring then?
AD:† Not much later.
FA:† My concern in terms of timing is if we wait until the end of the semester on this, then we donít have time to read and see if the information is responsive to Faculty kind of needs for information.
AD:† When did you ask for PC feedback?
AD:† In about another week.
AD:† From the feedback thatís been received to date, the suggestions are not extensive.
AD:† No.† Not very extensive, but we gave you two weeks.
AD:† Two weeks to review.† The volume of changes youíll need to make will probably take a weekís time.† So the first week of March is not unreasonable to get to Meet and Confer.
AD:† Iíd say mid-March.
AD:† Mid-March.† March 21st.
FA:† March 21st is two-thirds of the way through March.† Could we have a target to have it done after break?† The Faculty wonít be around here creating problems for offices (laughter).†
AD:† Some of you come in anyway just to do that.† (more laughter)
AD:† It may be out before that; it depends on what the rest of the feedback is.
FA:† Thank you.† We look forward to seeing it after break.
3. Early Notification System Ė (FA Ė 10/18/2007)
AD:† We talked about that as a pilot which would go forward through the spring and also that there were two other departments, the Math Skills people and the folks who teach the reading courses, want to continue to use the system so they will do that.
FA:† Could you repeat that?
AD:† The faculty who are in the Math Skills Center and the ones who teach reading want to continue using the system as a pilot.† We said it was okay to do that.
FA:† There are faculty then who have bought in to the pilot and are participating in it?
FA:† I did provide Avelino information about the Senateís response.† Iíd hoped he would be here today but obviously heís not.† He received the feedback that we brought to Meet and Confer last time.† Iím assuming that at this point we can take this off until there should be a change in the pilot or until the pilot will move into a regular program rather than a pilot.
4. Request for Faculty Co-Chair for Enrollment Management Ė (FA Ė 12/13/2007)
AD:† I thought I would be able to have a response to you for that one today but I will definitely have it at the next meeting.
FA:† So weíll leave that on for next time.
5.† Senate Motion Concerning E-mail Monitoring Ė (FA Ė 12/13/2007)
FA:† You had talked a bit last time about what expectations were concerning monitoring and you had indicated that you would like to bring a statement forward.† I donít know if youíre ready today or if we should bring it back time-certain at some other date.
AD:† Itís in draft form right now.† Weíre still working on it.
FA:† Should we leave it on the agenda for next time or should we bring it back when itís ready?
AD:† I think if we leave it on the agenda for next time weíll probably come near to getting it done by next time.
FA:† Weíll leave it on the agenda then.
6. Request for one faculty for the search for the new MSUAASF position at the MN Highway Safety & Resource Center (MHSRC) Ė Position title:† Director of Training (Emergency Vehicle Operators Course Instructor) Ė (AD Ė 12/13/2007)
FA:† We talked about that a couple times ago and you were scheduled to bring it back.
AD:† I did meet with the department and outlined my vision for this position.† It seemed to be okay.† It seemed to be a good meeting and I only received positive comments.† The position was created, benchmarked and assigned in the appropriate fashion so I would like to request that Bill Ruhr, because of his special expertise, serve on this committee.
FA:† Okay.† So itís been benchmarked and made into a MSUUASF position?† So what youíre actually doing then is announcing that that IFO position has been converted to a MSUUASF position.
AD:† No.† Thatís not what Iím saying.
FA:† Itís a different position?
AD:† Itís a new position.† Daveís going to remain where he is.† Heís on phased retirement and I donít have to replace him for three years.
FA:† I had understood from our last conversation that this was a replacement for the Director who is retiring.† That was my understanding.
AD:† No.† This is a new position and is not replacing anybody.
FA:† The e-mail correspondence that Iíve received from Bill indicated that this person was replacing Dave Schultz.
AD:† I have been very careful not to use the term replacement because Dave Schultz isnít leaving.
FA:† Iím just reporting what I have as an e-mail.
AD:† As I said, Iíve been very careful about not using that term because I think language has meaning and weíre not replacing Dave.
FA:† I thought in the conversation previously we had a discussion about how a position that was being looked at was an NTT position because that was no longer in the contract and there was the possibility of converting to the other bargaining unit.† I thought that was part of our conversation last time as well because I responded to that statement as I recall.† So I too am a little confused as to whether this is a new position or an attempt to convert a position.
AD:† Itís a new position, which is why it went through the position Ė whatever they call it.
FA:† I think we need to caucus.
(Faculty left the room to caucus)
FA:† We have a couple concerns regarding this.† The first is the need for clarification about two elements of the position.† Last time we met we were told that this was a replacement for a retirement.† Iím reading into the record:† This is FA:† ďWe do know that the person who is currently in the position is retiring.Ē† Administration:† ďHe is retiring.† Dave is non-tenure track NTT.† According to the contract as I read it, it said no additional non-tenure track appointments shall be made.Ē and then it goes on to talk about contractual processes.† Obviously itís our position that right now itís an IFO position.† Itís an NTT.† What I was hearing you say today is that this isnít a replacement, that this is a new position.† Does that mean thereís a shift in perspective from last time that now instead of replacing an IFO person with MSUUASF, we would be adding a MSUUASF position Ė that it would be a position in addition to what is currently there?
FA:† And that the IFOÖ
AD:† I didnít say that clearly last time.† We have an opportunity to expand out there and thatís what this position was created to take advantage of.† I think that Bill probably did see it as a replacement.† I never did.† I guess Iíll have to address this issue eventually when he retires.† I donít know how Iíll do that.† But this position is new and is intended to take advantage of some opportunities I see out there right now.
FA:† Just to clarify, this is a new additional position to the unit and that the current position still remains intact as an IFO position.† Can you tell us the process for which the determination was made for the new position and how it was determined that it was a MSUUASF position?
AD:† I actually have been talking to Bill and Ken ??? out there for a number of years about the need for the position.† I started working with them last summer and asked them to design a position.† They sent me a list of what they thought this position could do.† I worked that into a job description and sent it forward to Larryís shop where it was assigned a rank and then it went to the Chancellorís office.
AD:† We did determine that it was a MSUUASF position and then it was sent forward to the Chancellorís office where they assigned a salary range.
AD:† So it came back with a salary range.† It is appropriately a MSUUASF position and it doesnít address what I do three years from now when Dave retires.†
FA:† Whatís Davidís title today.
AD:† He is a faculty member.† He doesnít have any other title.
FA:† So if I go to the Web to see what his title is, it wonít be Director of Training.
AD:† Not in my mind.† I donít know what it says out there.† It shouldnít say that.
FA:† We obviously do have a disagreement about unit clarification.† We have a letter of understanding between the two bargaining groups with the signature of a mediator.† Why would we not, then, go through a process of examining those to determine if itís appropriate that itís a MSUUASF position.† I may or may not agree with you.† My reading, in my experience, is what occurs at the Minnesota Highway and Research Center is there are a number of items that are addressed in this list that are clearly IFO.† You said you talked to two of the members of the unit.
AD:† I talked to everybody Ė all six members.
FA:† Just a minute.† Are they both IFO?
FA:† Then thatís not the unit.† MSUUASF is not a member of an IFO unit.
AD:† MSUUASF is a member of that division, unit, whatever you want to call it.† It is not a member of the IFO unit.
FA:† When did the IFO unit meet?
AD:† A week ago Thursday.
FA:† Do you have any action minutes from the IFO meeting?
FA:† So what you have is an impression of what the IFO faculty had to say.
AD:† Iíve had a couple of verbal responses and one e-mail Ė maybe a couple e-mails.
FA:† It seems to me that when we make these kind of changes itís really important that consultation occurs.† There is a unit populated by I believe six IFO faculty Ė is that correct?
FA:† In addition, there are other bargaining units there.† I understand that.† Whatever hiring we do impacts that faculty unit and so to our mind it would be important that consultation take place.† Do you have a copy of this unit clarification order?† Iíd be glad to pass it around and people can take copies of it if theyíd like.† Consultation is an important process for us.† Itís important I think both for MSUAASF and IFO.† And itís important if youíre talking about a newly created MSUAASF position that MSUAASF be meet and conferred with also.† That has a very technical meaning based on whatever the contract is.† I know what the meaning is for our contract and I donít see that thatís taken placeÖ
AD:† We need to caucus.
(Administration left the room to caucus)
AD:† I will speak to what I think the question is.†† Let me know if Iím not speaking to the question.† We have stated clearly that this is a new position and that the IFO line remains and the incumbent is in fact there for the next three years on phased retirement.† We have gone through the classification and benchmarking for a position that has been assigned as a MSUAASF position.† We recognize that you have the right to go to the Bureau of Mediation Services and request a unit determination on this position.† We recognize that you have not seen the job description for this position so might reasonably ask, as John did I think, that IFO activities are performed in this unit and you might reasonably wonder if this job description includes IFO activities.† We believe that it does not and that they are MSUAASF activities.† John has a copy of the job description that he can share with you now.
FA:† We would appreciate seeing it by e-mail.
AD:† I understand.† We are going to stay on the track of opening a search for a MSUAASF position recognizing your ability, after looking at the job description if you so choose, to ask for a determination from the Bureau of Mediation Services.
FA:† Certainly the job description helps us to respond in a more informed way.† We understand that the unit determination has been made.† We understand also that this is a new position in addition to the IFO positions currently there.† We ask that when that retirement comes up in several years, if there are any plans to change, that consultation occur.† Weíve also heard you request a special appointment to this search committee.† We would prefer to use our normal processes of asking for representation.† I will go back and put out a request for one IFO person to serve on this search committee.† Iím assuming that by next Senate I will have a name that will be acted upon.† At the next Meet and Confer I should be able to bring you one.
AD:† Just as an aside.† We do have in the contract the ability to appoint people from the Faculty Association who have special expertise.†
FA:† Does that read:† with the approval of the IFO?
FA:† It does read:† with the approval of the IFO.
AD:† Does this apply to a MSUAASF position search?
FA:† We donít have to guess about it; we can refer to the contract about it.† It needs to be according to the language in the contract and not what we think.
AD:† The point in the contract that refers to this refers to Meet and Confer committees.† That raises another question.
FA:† If we can move the contract to the side in this discussion for a minute.† It seems to me that one of the reasons we ask for representation is that we want to give everybody the opportunity to put forward their names.† There are many faculty who might be interested in doing this who might have the abilities, the skill sets, the background.† Thatís why we would like to take this through the process we have.† IFO faculty in that unit are more than one and it would be good for IFO faculty to determine who would best speak in representing the faculty.† I do understand that we have a disagreement about what that language applies to.† I simply donít think that in this case itís a wise idea to do a special appointment.
AD:† I have no trouble with that.† Use your processes to appoint a person.
FA:† We appreciate that and we will bring a name as soon as weíre able to work through our processes and Iím expecting that will happen before the next Meet and Confer.† Anything else on this item?
7.† Update on Administrative Searches Ė (FA Ė 01/17/2008)
AD:† On the search for the Associate VP for International Studies, the search committee has met, is continuing to meet and is moving forward.† The search for the Dean for the College of Social Sciences, the committee has met and weíve been collecting applications.† The search for the Interim Associate Dean for the College of Science and Engineering has been finished and the Dean will be making the announcement about that very quickly.† Iíd rather have the Dean make the announcement as to who that individual is.† Those are the searches that are currently in process.
FA:† Any questions?†
AD:† Iím sorry, There is also the search for the Associate Dean for the College of Business which is in process as well.
AD:† Michael, the College of Education will be interviewing next week for an Associate Dean.
FA:† Okay, so weíre ready to move on.
8.† Request for Faculty to serve on three search committees for MSUAASF Positions: Director of International Admissions, Director of Study Abroad, and Director of International Student and Scholar Services Ė (AD Ė 1/31/2008)
FA:† We have a few names to bring forward for the search committees.† For Director of International Admissions, the Senate is appointing Susantha Herath.† For the Director of Study Abroad, the appointee is Jim Robinson.† Those names have gone forward to Margaret Vos and the faculty have been notified.† Thereís a third search committee, Director of International Student and Scholar Services.† Last time we did that search there was a failed search and we havenít had any volunteers coming forward but there was a lot of interest in serving on the other two committees.† Iím assuming that when I put out another call one of those faculty who was not appointed to the other two committees might come forward.† My hope is that Iíll have a name to bring forward next time for that last search committee.
AD:† Thank you.
9.† Naming of the Former Business Building Ė Redux (AD Ė 02/14/2008)
FA:† Iím sorry, I had to put "Redux" in there.† I wasnít thinking of ďApocalypse NowĒ Ė that word just slipped in there.† (laughter and jesting by the group)
AD:† Weíve accepted some of the comments weíve heard regarding the naming issue.† The plan next fall is to have a more expansive discussion of potential names for the building.† Weíre going to need a name in the interim.† We canít continue to call it the Business Building Ė it would be too confusing.† Our habit has been to use the street address as a naming convention.† We would like to hear from you over the next two weeks if you have comments about the interim name being Building 51.† (laughter)
FA:† Thatís a good one.† I would like to request that we call the building Area 51 instead of Building. (more laughter)
AD:† The presidentís already suggested that so I think weíre in agreement.† (continued laughter)
AD:† Weíre trying to conserve on resources and the word ďbuildingĒ is already there.† (laughter)
FA:† Could you maybe find leftover letters from other buildings Ė itís only four?† (laughter)† Iím sorry, Iím having a hard time not being flip about this.†
(other humorous comments about potential building names were suggested by various members of the group)
FA:† We understand last time we discussed that using the building number instead of naming it might be a good interim solution.† Youíre telling me that we wouldnít be stuck with this forever.
FA:† I will report back on whether or not the aura of Area 51 hangs over that building forever.† I think weíre fine on this item.
1.† Request for Faculty to serve on two administrative search committees:† AVP for Student Life and Development and Associate Dean for COSS Ė (AD Ė 02/14/2008)
AD:† We would like to request faculty representatives to serve on the AVP for Student Life and Development search committee and also five faculty to serve on the search committee for the Associate Dean for the College of Social Sciences.† Weíre assuming that weíll be able to conclude the dean search prior to the appointment of the candidate for the associate dean so that the new dean would be in place to help make that determination.
FA:† For associate deans do we appoint 5 or 6?
AD:† I think I said 5.
FA:† And our normal practice for the AVP level?
FA:† Probably one from each college and one for special services.† Thatís six.† I think thatís how we got our six to begin with; for committees that are for all university issues, we would like to have six faculty who represent those six constituencies.
AD:† I know the Vice President who requested committee members for the search is not here today.† Itís an assistant vice president within Student Life and Development.
FA:† I donít recall, and I didnít check back to see what our previous search did.† Maybe we should do that.† Student Life might sound like an odd one for us to say six to, but obviously students interact heavily with Student Life and Development.
FA:† Can we agree that we should go with past practice of what weíve done in the past for those types of positions?
AD:† I think so.
FA:† That way we wonít hold up the process.
FA:† So we can check and coordinate and I could get the call out for whatever weíve done in the past?† Are we in agreement on that?
FA:† Okay.† Thank you.† We can check and get the call out fairly quickly then.
2.† Ethical Standards for Employees Ė (AD Ė 2/14/2008)
AD:† Steve will speak to that.
AD:† Occasionally over the years weíve sent out information on ethical standards for employees and occasionally the governor has made a declaration about it.† I just wanted to give you a heads-up that Iím developing a memo that will go out to Vice Presidents and Deans and Directors and expect them to copy employees that recounts that weíre supposed to keep ethical standards in mind during our day-to-day business dealings.† We are, in fact, employees of the administrative unit of the State government.† I just wanted to let you know that this will be coming up.
FA:† So itís based on some state statute?
AD:† Itís based on state statute and referenced in MnSCU policy.† Iíll provide the references to that when it goes out so that people can look at the full text if theyíd like.
AD:† You didnít mention that there have been changes in the law and we havenít put out a notice since those changes in law some two years ago.
AD:† Yes.† There was a change two years ago.† Iím not certain of all the changes, but there were a number of them including one about the use of e-mail.† So this occurred two years ago and we havenít sent out a notice in the meantime.
FA:† So youíre just giving us a heads-up that weíll be seeing this and people will be talking to us about it?
AD:† Yes.† I just wanted to let you know that it will be coming out soon based on changes in the law in 2005.† We are asked to send this information out from time to time to keep people aware.
FA:† Youíll expect that weíll see this in what ways?† Do you know?
AD:† Hard copies will go to the Vice Presidents, Deans and Directors of the units.† Weíve been talking a little bit about how to publish it.† I think itís something thatís worthy of an e-mail to faculty and staff.
FA:† That seems fairly straight-forward and I appreciate the heads-up.
AD:† So we can take this off the agenda?
3.† COE Alignment Ė (AD Ė 2/14/2008)
AD:† In the College of Education several programs have requested moves from the department of ELCP (Educational Leadership and Community Psychology).† Over the past two semesters, beginning in fall, we started engaging in discussion and consultation about the alignment possibilities.† Where we are right now with the March 1st contractual deadline coming towards us Ė right now the first program is the Higher Ed program.† We have agreement with the ELCP and the CEEP (Counselor Ed and Educational Psychology) department that this move would be acceptable to both departments.† The move with the Educational Administration and Leadership program still needs further discussion and consultation.† What I proposed was not in agreement with some of the programs wishes so I think we really do need some continued discussion and consultation on that.† Iím proposing that we make a move like that next year by March 1st of 2009.† With the Community Psychology programs I believe we have pretty strong consensus that they should be their own department.† But given where we are with the Educational Administration program, again, I would recommend that move does not occur until March 1, 2009.† The other issue we were discussing was a name change for the College of Education to be more inclusive of our programs where we are preparing professionals other than teachers.† It seems from just the feedback that we again need more discussion and more consultation on that.† I think again, this needs more work.† The final issue was the Associate Dean position.† We have been in different discussions about that for over two years.† Iím requesting that we move forward with the second associate dean position.† In general, what we are moving forward with, in terms of the programs, would be just the Higher Ed program where there is agreement with both the ELCP department and the CEEP department.
FA:† Kate, to pick up on your use of ďwe;Ē† weíre very pleased that you listened and weíre very pleased that you gave opportunities to departments and additional opportunities for conversation.† Weíre pleased that you listened and have adjusted the proposal and we look forward to working with you and your colleagues in the College of Education on continuing the use of the word ďwe.Ē† In that spirit, we would like to see the discussion and role delineation clarified quickly with regard to what the new associate dean would be doing.† You acknowledge that in your correspondence to the college and we should be moving rapidly to have an all college committee examine that and articulate what that established vision is so that we can move forward to conduct a successful search.
AD:† I agree.† I think there is some confusion and I think the idea of bringing a group together would be very helpful.
FA:† Thank you.
FA:† Iím a bit confused on the associate dean.† Are you asking that the search go forward or that you would like to get agreement on the role and responsibilities.
AD:† Robert, Iím asking that the search move forward after we clarify that role and job description so itís more clear.
FA:† Shouldnít we make sure that process is complete before agreeing to it?
FA:† We have a very general description of the associate deanís role.† My understanding from the conversation with you yesterday is that this is a really different kind of position.† I think itís premature for us to say go ahead with it unless weíve seen that description.
AD:† With respect to the reorganization of departments, the contract specifies that the president can, after consultation, approve.† So that, weíre going to do.
FA:† Can you speak to your view of the position?
AD:† With respect to the associate dean, we talked yesterday and Judy asked if I would say some words today about the role of somebody whose focus is on outreach specifically.† There is a taskforce within the academic planning process thatís working on community engagement.† Likewise, thereís also one working on faculty research.† The infrastructure we have across the university to support outreach is anemic for the kinds of commitments we make.† We have very little coordination of the work we do.† One of the things that Iíve asked the Community Engagement group to do is recommend a structure to support outreach.† Outreach has a lot of different guises.† Itís related to service learning activity that occurs in a community for which we have great partnerships and placements to support faculty who are interested in having their students do service learning work in the community.† It relates to internship and practicum placements where we claim that the application of classroom knowledge to the real world is an important part of what we do.† We donít have smooth mechanisms for taking inquiries from the public when someone indicates they would like an intern and how do they go about getting one.† We donít manage that very well.† It also relates to the commitment in the general education curriculum to prepare our students for civic responsibility and engagement, which suggests that we have to be able to give all of our students experiences that support the development of those skills.† Our strategy in the past has been more responsive and accidental.† We donít have the ability to scale-up that kind of activity to touch all of our students.† We need more coordination and stronger infrastructure to support the work of the faculty and the objectives that the faculty has outlined.† Also, if we are to maximize the impact of our academic programs, and research on the region, we need more focus on what we do.† Historically, this institution as in most comprehensive institutions, has hired faculty to teach and those faculty members brought with them a research agenda or research interests that were accidental.† Note that we didnít in the past hire a person so much for their ability to teach and a research agenda that fit a strategic plan for the development of a program.† Sometimes accidentally you get the right kind of folks assembled and build real strength in the program and get the critical mass you need to build identity.† But more often than not, youíve got confusion of your power across a number of different areas that donít get synergy and focus.† As weíve been doing the academic planning one of the things Iíve asked the departments to do was to talk about shape, size and character.† The character piece is focus, strengths and what do you see as the nature of your program over the next decade.† Some programs have done that work already.† For example, in Criminal Justice, they made a strategic determination in the 1970s about the kind of place they would be.† They say ďnoĒ to certain opportunities and ďyesĒ to others that fit within their strategic definition and they have built substantial strength and reputation around their focus. Accounting is another area where they select to a purpose and say ďnoĒ to some opportunities and they hire faculty to fit the programís agenda with respect to research, service and their ability to teach the program offerings.† As we looked at an outreach coordinator structure, and weíre going through a time of transition, it will never be my intent to try and shoehorn the faculty who are here into new directions or channel them or interfere with their choices.† But strategically over time, the institution will increasingly build capacity in its programs as the faculty in the departments make choices about what kind of identities theyíre going to build and where theyíre focus is going to be.† Those folks with staff people who work in outreach, their role is not to constrain faculty work, but to coordinate, coordinate connecting this infrastructure across the campus, to increase the impact of what we do, make our resources more approachable to the outside world, and build the strength of our partnerships.† The other characteristic of faculty work is that while the interest of one faculty member or the orientation of one class may shift over time, the institution needs to be able to make sustainable commitments to issues and to partners.† If you rely on individual faculty members to do that work, what often occurs is that the institution keeps entering and pulling back, or changing its focus over time.† That makes us an undependable partner with the community.† By having a more organized outreach and interface, you allow the faculty to make choices and the institution to maintain direction.† So you can assist a wide array of units in connecting with external opportunities.† Itís a way that this institution has not worked before.† Portland State University is a great example of a unionized campus that does work in this way to great effect.† They have achieved a national reputation for civic engagement because theyíve gotten all the butterflies to fly in formation.† Itís not a coercive process.† Itís a facilitative process.† Thatís sort of whatís in my mind and thatís the work that Iíve asked the Community Engagement and Faculty Research committees to think about.
FA:† So Iím hearing a couple of things in what youíre saying that Iíd like to frame if I could.† What Iím hearing you say is that this position is probably going to be one of a number that would intend to build strength for the university in that area.
AD:† I think thatís true.† For example, and it doesnít always have to be an associate dean Ė in Science and Engineering they hired Bruce Jacobson to do outreach and program partnership development.† Thatís his specific role.† There would be different kinds of roles in a network of partnership development whose job is to manage the interface of the university with the community.
FA:† I also think Iím hearing you say that this position would be defined in a way and established institutionally in a network that would encourage what we were talking about the other day as informal collaboration as well as to ensure formal consultation that we have contractually.
FA:† There is, of course, a concern that if the departments donít remain connected in integal ways to the curriculum and so on that is arranged with partners, then itís a problem for us.† Iím not hearing you say that thatís the way itís going to happen.† But weíre going to be setting things up so that we recognize the need for consultation and collaboration structurally.
AD:† Right.† Thatís absolutely right.† There are a couple things you have to balance.† One of the things that you have to balance is that there has to be room for flexibility in what weíre packaging.† You canít straightjacket this thing.† On the other hand you have to provide a dependable interface for the community so that the bridges are built.† Folks in this role donít deliver programs and donít deliver faculty to work in partnership with partners.† Theyíre interpreters and bridges.† They understand the inside really well, they know what the interests of the faculty are and what the strategic interests of the departments are, and they work to support the connection of partnerships on the outside that will offer opportunities for departments and individual faculty to do their work.
FA:† Okay.† Obviously the other thing that you are saying is that you intend to go ahead with this search and that youíre authorizing that.† We, or course would still like the job description.
AD:† I would like to do it as Robert suggested; that you have an opportunity to see the description and have some comfort with it and then move forward after thatís done.
FA:† I would like some clarification.† Essentially, what we are meeting and conferring on is the movement of one program from one department to a new unit.
AD:† After Meet and Confer today, I would move on that.† Consultation has taken place.† There are votes and documents from both those departments.† So after this conversation today, I would go ahead with that one thing.
AD:† The other recommendation Iím making to President Potter is that the Ed Ad programs would move in 2009 after consultation.
FA:† Thatís why Iím pursuing this.
AD:† The only thing thatís being brought to you today is Ö
FA:† Thatís whyÖ
AD:† Just let me finish.† The way you said that is not the way we talked about it.
AD:† Yes. Exactly.
AD:† What youíd said originally was that we need to talk about the proposal for and examine the options for the other ideas and other things put on the table.
AD:† So that the decision about what to do about that particular program has not been made.† The one commitment that we did want to make, which weíre not bringing today because itís not appropriate, is we would like to make a commitment to Community Psychology that next year we would follow through with a department there.† Thatís a separate case.† We donít need to bring that today.† What we need to bring weíre going to act on by the March 1st.
FA:† March 1, 2008.
FA:† I think itís really important that we be really clear about that one piece that weíre doing this year.† My concern with the 2009 date is if weíre really committing to open discussion and conversation about division of the College of Education, if thereís a date and a move that forecloses any kind of conversation about that possibility.† It seems to me that weíre at a very important place right now.† It seems to me that consultation is beginning in a very productive and active way and there are a lot of possibilities that might come forward.† If we name things that weíre going to do in the future, that forecloses other possibilities that havenít been brought to the table yet.†
AD:† Thatís why I would like to talk about Community Psychology in another conversation because the faculty in that body are engaged in the accreditation process, which can be damaged by lack of clarity around this.† But we need to have that conversation recognizing that all the other elements are unresolved and require a great deal of further conversation.† Youíve got a time line which we chose not to share here due to time constraints.† But the written time line essentially makes that commitment to further discussion without predetermined answers.† One editorial comment; it was alleged that there was a predetermined answer in this reorganization and that we were going to drive it through by March 1st and thatís not true.† We have listened and made changes and the door is open for full and thorough examination of options and rationale for those various options going forward.
FA:† I would hope that an important part of that conversation would be the request that has come up numerous times from EdAd about where they might end up and the needs and concerns that theyíve expressed in many documents.† I think we need to not lose those, Itís my understanding that their request for departmental status was one of the things that began this conversation about reorganization.† So I would hope in this conversation we wouldnít lose the interests and needs of those faculty.
AD:† We wonít.
FA:† For the record it would appear that the only item that we have met and conferred on and the Faculty Association has agreed to is the first bullet on the second page that says that HIED would move to CEEP.
AD:† Thatís correct.
FA:† There is a related issue that comes from a completely different angle.† As part of a budgetary committee that I sit on we were given a document that stated, I think the 28th of January, that indicates some reallocation of funds in academic areas that I think in the College of Education was approximately $275,000 or so that would be salary savings to be determined.† I wonder what I say to a colleague in the College of Education when they say that $150,000 of that has been moved into this associate dean position.† I donít know what the state of that discussion is or exactly how the salary savings are to be determined, but it would not be unreasonable to assume that this is moving dollars from faculty positions to administrative positions.
AD:† Do you want to comment on that Kate?
AD:† Well we started that discussion at DNC today and that exact item came up in that discussion.
FA:† So Iím not going to get that explanation today.† This is a discussionÖ
AD:† Youíre about to go out with a bunch of proposed adjustments to the budget which achieve the savings target and creates a pool for reallocation.
AD:† Identifies some reallocation.
AD:† Yes, identifies some reallocation.† That information will be public and on the table.
FA:† We already have it.
AD:† You have it, but itís unpublished.† We havenít officially taken it to Meet and Confer.† Itís out there.† Itís not a secret.
FA:† I like what Robert said.† We are agreeing to the one item and the rest will be done in an open and transparent way.† Thereís a difference between consultation and collaboration.† My hope is that this will be done in an open and transparent way because it makes it easier for everyone to buy in to it.
FA:† We certainly are in agreement that weíre going to work together on processes.† We have a good opportunity here.† The academic plan is in process now and hopefully the results of the academic plan this spring can help inform the reorganization discussion.† Itís my sense that talking about vision and individual departments are an important part of this process and I look forward to having that conversation.
AD:† Tuesday I met with the Academic Affairs Council with John and Judy.† The subject of our conversation was collaboration and consultation.† Iíll let the two of them comment.† My position is that collaboration and consultation are complementary processes Ė theyíre not the same.† You can satisfy all the requirements of the agreements for consultation and not be collaborative.† And you can collaborate, but if you donít satisfy the documentation and specific elements of the agreement, you can fail to consult.† We need to understand these complementary processes and we talked about that.
FA:† We know that a process has begun in two of the colleges, actually I believe three of the entities to have a partnership to define those practices that maximizes the positive and minimizes the negative.† I suspect Iíll have an e-mail from my dean asking when we can meet.
AD:† I just sent it to you.† (laughter)
AD:† This afternoon.
FA:† Weíll talk more about this at Executive Committee and at Senate to kind of make more concrete the distinctions that weíve been talking about.† But certainly, we would agree with the presidentís perspective of those two processes in general.† We look forward to having more widespread conversation because I donít think we agree about what those terms mean.† I think sometimes for that reason, we tend to find ourselves in difficulties that we donít need to be in.
4.† Honorary Doctorates Ė (AD Ė 02/14/2008)
AD:† I met with Dennis Nunes who is chairing the committee to recommend folks to receive an honorary doctorate this year.† You remember that we moved the awarding of honorary doctorates from the end of fall term to the end of spring term and moved the student speaker to fall term and that we agreed to select two so that one will speak at morning commencement and one will speak in the afternoon.† Theyíre moving ahead and will come forward with some recommendations.† What they have not done yet, although I am confident in the quality of the conversation, what they havenít done yet, and they have to continue to work on for a number of months going forward, is to describe the role of an honorary doctorate in an institution like ours and what purpose it serves.† They also need to describe the criteria that this institution will use to select people to receive honorary doctorates.† That conversation will grow out of the work theyíre doing now.† What we will eventually do is bring that process to Meet and Confer to share.
FA:† Sounds reasonable.† Any questions or observations?
5.† 1B.1 Task Force Interim Report and Action Plan dated 1/31/2008 Ė (FA Ė 2/14/2008)
FA:† You receive the interim report from the 1B.1 Taskforce and we did also.† Senate moved on Tuesday that the Faculty Senate support the recommendations in the interim report put forth by the 1B.1 Taskforce.† Weíre happy that theyíve arrived at interim recommendations and we understand that thereís a final report coming at the end of spring.† Weíre glad to begin to see the results of our joint work on this issue on campus.
AD:†† There are 12 or 14 specific recommendations in the interim report.† The taskforce confined its recommendations in the interim report to actions they believe can be accomplished on this campus.† There are other matters they are considering that require change at the system office.† Two of those items are things that I need legal advice on because Iím not sure I can do them.† Weíre in conversation about those and will share what we understand and what we can do in response to those recommendations and they are numbers 6 and 11 Ė Iím not sure if I can do them.† Iíd like to get more information about them.† There are two steps in the recommendation that we do want to act on now.† Weíre going to be processing the recommendations step-by-step.† The first of these is to move the reporting line of the Special Investigator from the Presidentís office to report Ė Iíll tell you why Iím hesitating on this in a moment. Ė to the Affirmative Action Officer; so change the reporting line.† As the report notes, thatís to achieve a greater sense of independence in the reporting line of that position.† The second step we would take Ė actually two parts Ė is to rename the Affirmative Action office to the Office of Equal Opportunity and Equity.† And probably, we havenít talked about this yet Steve, Susan has asked, and I think itís a reasonable thing to do, to move that office out of the Administration Building to make it more generally accessible to the campus and more of a resource to the campus.† So the Special Investigator would be there and be out of the second floor of the Administration Building.† Weíre developing paperwork to support all of that.† When that paperwork is done weíll bring it to Meet and Confer.† There will be some changes in the job description for the Special Investigator to add the responsibility for training around the discrimination issues as well.† Those are the steps weíll take first.† As I said, weíre doing that work and weíll share it and consult with all the bargaining units.† Iím appreciative of the Faculty Senateís support for that work.
FA:† Any questions or discussion?
FA:† I appreciate the prompt action on the recommendations.
FA:† Who would the new Affirmative Action office be reporting to.
AD:† That remains an open question too.† Now, Susan reports to me.† Weíre looking at moving her reporting line to HR.† Iím not really sure and Iím thinking about that.† Thatís the recommendation thatís been made and I think itís appropriate.
FA:† Anything else?† Iím assuming this item will come back when you have some sort of document you want to meet and confer with us on.
1.† COE Climate Task Force (separated from Task Force on Diversity at the 8/30/07 Meet and Confer) Ė (FA Ė 9/22/2005)
FA:† Is there anything new on the COE taskforce?
AD:† I met with the two chairs this week to sort out compensation and make sure everybody was compensated.
FA:† Okay.† So thatís taken care of then and weíre moving forward with an external and internal co-chair?
AD:† Yes.† Weíre all set to go.
FA:† Thank you for the update on that.
2.† Intellectual property and releases from PR Ė (FA Ė 8/30/2007)
FA:† I still owe you a document from the IFO, who has been busily working on getting contract ratification items set up.† A lot of you know this, but for those of you who donít, weíre doing an expedited process for contract ratification, which means weíre hurrying around in the IFO office and the FA office.† Ballots are in peopleís boxes.† Weíre hopeful.† Our vote here is supposed to be next Thursday Ė deadline.† With that agreement of an expedited process, the Chancellor has agreed to take it to the Board of Trustees early in hopes of taking joint action to the legislature before we hear the next economic forecast.† Weíll see how it plays out.† Weíve been doing all sorts of things instead of working on these sorts of documents.† Iíve been told next time for sure.† Weíll believe it when we have it here in front of us.
3.† Academic Plan Ė (AD Ė 10/18/2007)
AD:† The work on the academic plan is going forward.† The department plans are due by the end of this month on the 29th.† The college summaries of those work plans/departmental plans are due the 14th of March as are the work group reports.† Subsequent to that there will be a retreat and a faculty forum to discuss a draft of the overall plan so that weíll have campus conversation about and be able to have opportunities for the plan to be discussed and also, if necessary and desirable, to make some changes to it.† The Strategic Planning Committee will have an opportunity to look at some of the outcomes of what the various work groups are recommending as well.† President Potter, you wanted to say a few things about this?
AD:† A number of things.† Iíve met with all the task forces and I have, last month I think, finished my final meetings with departments.† Iíve met with all the academic departments.† Itís clear that the task forces are all working very well and I think very seriously.† Theyíre very focused and excited about their work.† The departments are also working.† Some have taken the opportunity with a lot of excitement and focus.† There is some cynicism in a few departments and I want to talk about that in a little bit.† Weíre cutting the budget and theyíre asking us for new things to do.† Which is exactly what I told every department would likely happen Ė that we would be looking at needing to make changes in the budget to increase the line for faculty salaries as a consequence of the agreement for the next biennium Ė for this biennium Ė because we had not budgeted as much as we are going to be giving.† This year that wonít cause any problems, but next year we might have to do some belt-tightening.† Thatís the context of the budget.† I told people that it might seem odd to ask them to keep their eyes focused on the future and look forward.† I just want to underline that point, and Judy, I would ask you for some help with this.† The issue is that weíve asked people to look at the size, shape and character of their programs out a decade.† If any department blows-off† that opportunity because theyíre jaundiced either about the planning overall or think that cutting money next year means itís a useless exercise, weíre trying to develop a vision which will drive our facilities plan, our staffing plan and our budget planning going forward for ten years.† Weíre cutting this next year a little bit Ė not much Ė a percent, percent and one-half, it could reach two percent.† Right now itís looking like a percent-and-one-half Ė not a lot of money.† If they donít express their vision for the future, then their vision canít be included in the facilities, staffing and budgeting plans for the future.† Iím asking for help to carry the message that itís really important that we have the vision of departments for their future so we can do good planning that will drive our fundraising, drive our facilities plan, and drive the work weíre doing with the system to get the budget we need.
FA:† You havenít met with all the academic departments yet.
AD:† Okay.† I havenít met with yours?
FA:† No.† Youíve been a lot of places, but not to our department.
AD:† Then Iíll have to carry that back.† I met with all the department heads in Social Sciences and I met with a number of departments.† If I havenít met with yours I need to get back to Sharon and let her know that all of the meetings have not been scheduled yet.† I apologize for that.
FA:† There is one other department in the College of Social Sciences that you havenít met with yet.
AD:† Thanks. †Let me get back to Sharon.
FA:† Does this apply to both undergraduate and graduate programs?
FA:† Did you want to say anything about strategic planning and the academic planning piece?
FA:† Strategic Planning has scheduled a review of the final academic plan.† We have that on our calendar in addition to the three tasks that were given to the Strategic Planning Committee by the President for this semester, which are one that focuses on measures, one that explores the Carnegie Community Engagement Recognition, and the third is the application of the Baldwin principles to an educational enterprise.† We did begin work today on that in this room.† As I told the President, weíll get it done.
AD:† Do you mean Baldridge?
FA:† Baldridge Ė didnít I say that?† Baldridge, the guy that fell off the horse.
FA:† I would ask Faculty to go back to their colleges and encourage people to take these academic plans seriously from the departments.† John and I have talked about sending out a joint message to departments.† I think itís very easy given previous planning processes here to say that weíve done that 100 times before and this time will be no different.† Certainly I believe that this time will be different and I hope that we can take that message back and encourage Faculty to become engaged in their futures.
AD:† I would ask that any communications be positive in nature.† There is a lot of really good, serious work going on.† I donít even know which departments, but itís been expressed to me that there are a few concerns of cynicism.† Iím delighted with the quality and the breadth of the work thatís happening across campus.
FA:† Thank you very much.† We have one item left before adjournment.
4.† Report on Budget Ė (AD Ė 10/18/2007)
AD:† Sometimes I feel like I should speak like that guy in the Federal Express ads.† (laughter) The first document you may have seen is a spreadsheet that opens with our assumptions based on what weíre doing and what weíve done in the past.† They represent the increase in our appropriation from the Legislature and the Office of the Chancellor, including some of the allocated funds for specific areas like technology and student and performance initiatives and itís based on our enrollment.† Itís also on the presumed increase in tuition Ė the 3% that the students will see and the additional per cent that is being bought down by the Office of the Chancellor.† If you look on the second sheet it will show that weíre nearly in balance.† This particular representation shows that weíre approximately $630,000 out of balance, which out of $140 million is a small number and I would note that in a typical year we would have about $1 million of additional funds based on vacant positions and other things that we would expect to see for 2008.† And with our change in our carry-forward policy, that amount is yet undetermined.† With a couple of years of that under our belt, we can probably sharpen our pencil on that also as we go forward.† At the bottom of the 2009 column, this shows the budget reductions, some bandaids and some increases.† Weíre setting aside $500,000 for implementation of the academic plan.† Those are some initiatives that you wonít be aware of until we finish the academic plan so theyíre yet undetermined.† The next document that I provided is the spreadsheet labeled draft and is indeed a draft.† This is the document that came back from the Vice Presidents through various consultations and work within the units.† We are ready to present this to the campus community as a draft for input and comment so that we can move forward.† Of course, final action on the tuition has not been done by the Board and some other things will come together as we go.† These are the proposals that have come forth.† I can certainly speak to those in Administrative Affairs and I have a pretty good understanding of what Wanda intends.† She was unable to be here today.† Those from University Relations are pretty straight forward from Vice President Rudnitski.† Michael can certainly speak to those in his area and the President is conversant with the items involving his office.† We followed this format and reductions, permanent and one-time, additions that would be permanent and one-time.† Some people chose to represent personnel separately so there is a little variation there in how itís presented, but we do think itís a fairly clear representation.† This represents the M&E funds or the State funds.† In some cases they represent transfers of expenses to other areas of the university and in some cases revenue from outside.† (Vice President Ludwig then provided comment on a number of the proposed budget adjustment line items listed under Administrative Affairs)† I would now defer to Michael and given the time, we can certainly talk about this again.† This is not something that we need to cover in its entirety today.
FA:† As I mentioned earlier, the reason that Michael had a copy of these materials is that through that Budget Advisory process, materials are getting into hands of people in a timely way.† Iím sure that the FA Budget Committee is going to be examining our fiscal health.† There are substantial balances in accounts that appear to be uncommitted and unencumbered out there in accounts across the campus.† Thatís a question that weíre going to raise and look at that.† That certainly is a good thing.† Itís a good thing that we have that cash.† But it is difficult to explain if the funds there, why they arenít being used and then weíre turning around and saying we need to make a cut.† There is, of course, a difference between structural, ongoing and the one-time activity.† But weíre much closer to being able to talk about budget with the entire community in a way that is clear and concise than we ever have been.† Weíre still not quite there, but we will get there.
FA:† We certainly appreciate this detailed information.† Weíll be talking more about it.† Thank you very much.
AD:† Iím very pleased with where we are moving on this.
Adjourned:† 5:01 p.m.