FA/Adm Meet and Confer

February 8, 2001


Meeting Notes


Faculty Association:† Judy Foster, David Mork, Fred Hill, Andy Larkin, Kathleen Maloney, Theresia Fisher, Judith Kilborn, Terry Peterson, Annette Schoenberger, Ravi Kalia, Jayantha Herath†††††††††††† ††††††††††††††††Sunshine Shaney, Notetaker


Administration:† Roy Saigo, Suzie Williams, Gene Gilchrist, Lin Holder, Roland Fischer, John Burgeson†††††††††††††††††††††††† Jackie Zieglmeier, Notetaker




FA:†† We have a couple of things we are dropping from the agenda.† We are substituting ďkiller coursesĒ.† We are adding the University Seal as 6a and† #10 just a formality on the Alnwich directors for 2001-2002.† We also want to reiterate that we had agreed on a 10 minute time limit at the last meet and confer.† How do we be sure to abide by that?† We had a question, is there any significance that all your items are information items and not agenda items?† Does that mean they are not open to discussion?


Adm:† These are items that do not require action but they are not closed to discussion.



FA:† The Faculty Senate has looked at the calendar for 2002-2003 school year and has decided to send it to our committee for general feedback .† The senate has come up with two concerns.† The first being commencement.† We would like to keep it on Saturday in fall, but change it to Sundays in the spring.† The second concern, we would like to run classes through the 13th† of December and finals will then run through the 20th.† This will provide the students with a study day between the last day of classes and the beginning of final exams.† Faculty would prefer to run classes through Friday and would rather not have classes Thursday and final exams on Friday.


Adm:† You are saying actually having classes Friday.† The problem with that is that it will provide more classes for the Monday-Wednesday-Friday schedule than the Tuesday-Thursday classes.† This will cause Monday-Wednesday-Friday to have one additional 50 minute period than if we have Friday as a study day.


FA:† Fall seems to have less classes for the Monday-Wednesday-Friday schedule than spring.


Adm:† They are equal.† Ultimately you lose a Monday because of Labor Day.† Somewhere you lose a Thursday and Friday and in terms of the meeting time if we stick to the schedule they come out evenly.†


FA:† My impression is that there are more Mon.-Wed.-Fri. classes in the spring than in the fall.† Primarily the discussion doesnít have to do with making the days equal but rather having a study day in between classes and finals.


Adm:† Would you accept having a Friday and weekend as study day?


FA:† Yes, we would accept that.


Adm:† The other point on commencement, I think that is an excellent idea. The last comment, I hope that the Committee on the Institution would look at future calendars, also.† Excellent suggestion.







Adm:† The first two items will run together.† Three years ago Mankato and Bemidji wanted us to look at banded tuition.† Providing an incentive to take between 18-20 credits, that it would be to the studentsí advantage.† We declined at that time because the portion of students taking less than 11 credits was higher.† We knew that in order for this to be mutual the per-credit charge had to be equal.† We did say we would come back after they had a chance to do a study and here we are.† Before they started in banding this was Mankatoís distribution.† They had an increase in both the 1-11 and 12-19 categories in the fall of Ď98.† But it occurred not to go up but down to 11 credits or less.† In the fall of Ď99 they have returned in the 1-11 to the pattern they saw in the quarters.† They have had an increase in 12-19, but not what they were looking for.† In the case of Mankatoís fall Ď98 undergrad money, if they had been in banding they would have earned more.† It didnít affect the credit taking behavior.† It dropped students from the above 18, essentially it was a tuition increase.† Mankato actually earned 11.6, so again they have made money through banding.† So they are generating fewer credit hours.† The last topic now, Mankato, in banding, made 12.5.† Had they charged what we do they would have made 12.6, so the outcome was to have a change in student credit taking behavior and to reduce students taking 12-19.† Before you answer the question about whether you would like banding, this chart tells you for fall 2000 new entering students and same for fall Ď99 and í98.† On the bottom of the fall Ď99 column, we are seeing the new first year students taking more courses.† What it would suggest is that there were courses available to students to count for there programs, but they were not as encouraged to take those at the time.† Enrollment management recommended that we not go to tuition banding.† You may feel differently and well take your advice.


F:† Enrollment management made that decision based on this chart?


Adm:† Yes.


F:† Your assumption that the changes that were made were experienced due to banding as opposed due to change in semesters.† I wonder if that is a more appropriate analysis.† Itís easy to assume they reduce because of change from quarter to semesters.


Adm:† It is quite possible that that is true.


F:†† So if Iím hearing this correctly there are two variables and we donít know which is the compounding variable.


Adm:† However, the intent that banding would cause students to go form 1-11 to 12-18 does not seem to be bearing out.


F:† So that would suggest that there would be another marker time if this is not the time for action when there appear to be only one variable.


Adm:† But you canít get another marker time unless they stay on banding.


F:† I have one question. In the fall of† Ď99 you have 2 individuals with 32 credits.† Why is that?


Adm:† They were awarded that many credits, but I donít know the answer to that question.†



FA:† We were wondering what the cost for that $12,000.† Was it all staffing?


Adm:† Primarily staffing salaries.





F:† The senate again raises the issue of accuracy of data.† Pointing out that the data appears to not be too accurate and how that might be used in decision making.† Another issue related to that, is in terms of scheduling vs. reassigned time allocation decision making.† At this moment we are being asked to put together fall schedules.† If a person is going to get reassigned time that affects their schedule.† It appears as if there is more concern on campus, as some of the budget reduction issues seem to focus on reassigned time.


Adm:† As you know we are looking at budget reductions for next year and we presented you with where we thought they would occur.† They are supposed to occur with no decline in enrollment.† The opposing goals are in making budget reduction but no decline in enrollment.† Some of the reassigned time may not be available next year.† We are contractually obligated to provide some of the reassigned time.† We may have to cut back on that but we have the goal to support scholarly activity.† There is discussion going on, but right now the deanís are scrutinizing very carefully the reassigned time they have provided in previous years.† The data is correct.† If someone has a reassignment that is not turned in to HR it does not get into system.†† I donít have a choice to correct that.† I canít help it.† Only the people who have the authority can.† If data shows we have ďXĒ number of hours, thatís what the computer shows and we canít change it.†† What is in the data system is correct.† The input of information into the data system has not been as satisfactory as we would choose.† We are not using that data for decision making because we know the data that was put in was not complete.† I know the concern and I share the concern.† My colleagues get jerked around by numbers that have changed.†


F:† The one issue not clarified the is the Deans are reexamining the reassigned time. It causes the faculty to be in a difficult position when they are supposed to put out fall schedules.


Adm:† Unless someone has been told they have reassigned time for fall they probably wonít have any.


FA:† There are duties that go along with those reassigned times and I hope someone is looking at those.


FA:† The key to help explain these is based on data recorded in Human Resources.† That is a function of the level of

accuracy in HR.† Which may or may not be a true picture.


Adm:† In fact some of what should be reported is probably not reported.† Whatís in HR is the only reassigned time.


FA: That suggests that we are at a point of emphasizing the significance.† The data accuracy becomes significant.


Adm:† I agree with you.† If you were given a reassignment for one less class in fall so you can work on a book it wasnít important that that was reported.† With our new cost study it becomes essential.† The system willassume that you are100% instruction and you are teaching four classes.


F:† There are also internal decisions that are made in departments that have to do with allocation of assignments.† When a department is making a decision it gets into issues of balancing labs and serving thesus committees. It gets into issues that are internal to departments.† When would those tidbits of information be captured in a way that can be incorporated into database in HR?


F:† Someone said they were promised by there dean one course reassigned time.† Somehow the paperwork didnít get done.† Now we have situation where data is bad and a promise was made† but broken.† If we have someone who is given time to do something, how do we get that time set correctly in HR?


A:† Training is going on for distributing the rosters .† Those rosters will have all the information on assignment and departments on it.

F: How do you get it in the system?


A:† That information will be available to deans and possibly to departments to verify that the data is correct.


F:† The issue to address is assignment of workload. They are going to reduce reassigned time to what they are contractually obligated to provide.† Iím very curious as to what the model is that is going to be implemented to get those duties done.


A:† deanís are going to have to weigh the value of those other duties vs the value of putting another class out there.† The issue will be if we cut 16 faculty lines and well over half of our adjunct budget so students can make a timely degree. Itís a variety of kinds of things that serve this university well. Bottom line larger classes, less reassigned time.


FA:† The concern here is that when there is a lot of discussion about reducing release time without any kind of planning for supporting those activities that release time enables.† Then weíre back to ďout of hyde.Ē† So I would like to see that discussions broaden to focus on those activities.† We need to plan for any reduction of release time for the university.† I donít think itís a matter of blaming, itís a matter of different ways of capturing reporting.† Secondly, we need to think what this means monetarily for us.†


A:† One of the sad realities is we are rewarded for only completion of a credit hour.† If we an an analysis, if every teacher taught four classes a year, we are still short 70 faculty lines.† Back to the issue, the decision that you made about resource allocation is only yours to make.† So I agree that those decisions affect our ability to provide to students.† We shouldnít just let this go by us, we ought to look on this together and get clean on it.


F: As we look on this graph the column on unreported time on less than 24.† We should all look at that more carefully.† It may be the most problematic.† How many departments are there who have this education requirement?


A:† At this point I believe there are 62 vacant permanent lines.† We agreed earlier that we would not fill four.† Worst case scenario would say that we would not fill 16 more.† For a class size of 25 we need to fill 70.




A: In August we met with the budget committee because we projected that we would have a shortfall in our budget.† We are still talking about the characteristics of that shortfall.† We put a schedule out on how we would go about reducing the budget this year.† We met with your budget committee for about 2 Ĺ hrs. and went through these reduction. It was in your senate packets.† We have added three items.† The President has proposed a cultural climate study.† We have a projected shortfall of $5 million.† We have sought to manage that shortfall in 4 categories.† Salary reserves and University hold reserves are two of them.† Outside of Academic Affairs-in supplies and equipment many offices proposed to reduce.† Right now there is a proposal that we would further rescue that throughout the year.† We reduced other reserves.† You can see for those of you who remember Academic Affairs was about 75% of budget and would be about 20% of the reduction.† Lastly, you will note that we have assigned reductions greater that what we believe our deficit would be.† We taxed reserve for parking, equipment upkeep, recreational sports and the computer store reserve.† So our intent, if the money is available at year end, we would restore those reserves at the end of the year. †We are aware that the tuition projection for this year is off.††† What is your opinion on the $800,000 deficit?


F:† Senate is recommending that it be saved for next year.


A: The concern that I have is that† you are moving one time money to preclude permanent cuts, so you are postponing cuts for a year.† If you move it to next year, you are just delaying the cuts.† We are taking money from parking recreational sports and computer stores.† The plan is $323,000 is there restore the reserves.


F: Are there any expenditures that would be better for us to spend this year because it would cost more next year.


A:† You can do it, however that is another question you introduced that requires thought.†


FA:† The Deanís have asked to give the supply budget back.† Some departments are having problems.† Is there any way that we can get those monies restored to the departments who cannot function without those supplies?† There are some departments that are really hurting.


A: If I understand the recommendation that comes from the Senate, then thatís not the case.


F:† There was another motion to stand firm on the questions for the internal audit.


A:† Please understand that when the auditors come they Ö† at the end, the administration will take its lumps.† I want to be on the record as saying that the concerns were not put on the record to avoid concerns.†


F: The understanding was that there could be some changes in other depts.† A certain degree of flexibility are faculty concerns.




F:† We have quite a few concerns about this website.† What it says about us and our students.† A particular course that has large absences labels teachers failures and courses killers.† On a related website there is information on grades.† We are concerned about the privacy of posting of grades.† There are certain places where you can identify students because there is only one.† What does it say about us and our students?


A:† I am genuinely sorry if this has caused anyone distress.† It will be off the web in two days.† It never should have been there.† There was a misunderstanding.††† This was a study for particular data we wanted to have but didnít.† Are there courses that students are having a particularly hard time with completing.† We are still playing with the best way to put together the report.† It is not intended for students to look at, it is intended for deans to look at what we can do for these high failure rates.† I think there are classes that we donít know.† Some are just tough classes.† Are students ill-prepared for these?† Or maybe the material is too tough.† Whatís the nature of thisÖ it really was a long term desire to have this. It is only intended to provide information to the Deans.


F:† Gathering these statistics was well known in community.† Is there any way to see the plan?


A:† It should still be on website.


F: Since this data has been collected have there been any decisions made?


A:† The dean just saw it on Tuesday and the report has not been made.


F: There is a concern about comparability of the information thatís part of this draft report.† One example is through department grade distribution.† In Accounting 381† the percentage of students failing was not the same percentage† as in the draft report.††† Every time we get data weíre very frustrated.† The other thing that distresses me is that we shouldnít have seen this.† Some of the words are extremely demeaning and whoever did this isnít going to take responsibility.† Things happen and we donít know why and then the same things happen again.


A: People who have computers can post things and these things happen.


F:† I have heard you but there are few points meant to be constructive.† The message is wrong that we are conveying.† One might also have posted the courses with high grades. That was not done.† I accept what you have said. There should have been a positive approach to the problem.† The last point is that there are some courses that have concern because of failure rate.† This should not have been meant for our students.† That is discouraging students from taking particular courses and is harmful to the institution.


A: One of the things we did ask to include in this report is Are there any national norms.† This kind of data, when we can finally get it to the point that we have what we need, it will be very helpful to university.† If courses are consistently presenting problems to students and are there particular things we can do to help students be more successful.† Without this data you never would be asking these questions.


F: For the courses that I was aware of, people were not using shaded grading.† In cases such as this data, I would hope that would be looked at in trends rather than as an anomaly.† Another thing to add to list of considerations is whether SCSU needs to do more with applying MNSCU standards for enrollment.


A:† Do we have the right testing and placement requirements?


F:†† I think we already have a good idea of what a lot of the problems are but the problem weíre having is how to address those things.† Maybe a more proactive approach is to look at some of the issues and do something about them instead of continuing to collect data.




A:† I asked what we could do together to affect the Governorís budget.† This shows you that next year with the Governorís budget, if distributed by MNSCU, we would need more money.† Before we went to the press conference with MNSCUís chair you asked the last time what does the university intend to do.† Strategy was to let the president go first to get the attention in the Star Tribune.† After that had died down, have out-of-state press conferences.†† The problem when we go public with the budgets is that we would like to say my colleague will take care of it.† When you speak to the press you try not to repeat concepts and somehow they come up with other concepts.† Now the question is what effect did we have?† There are ways you can be affective that we canít .† I think this is something we can do together.† Weíll develop talking points.† Weíll use our alumni e-mail network and get them involved.† While the legislators are outraged as individuals, they find it hard to fight as a group.† The good news is this is an opportunity for us to pull together.


F:† I have the support of the Executive Committee to go ahead with this.




F:† This comes from Academic Affairs and represents bottleneck courses.


A:† Advisors have indicted to us courses that are difficult to students because they are closed when new students get here and try to register.††† We looked at only those required in a major, general education or admission into a major.† We have courses that close but are not required.† These are required courses that close before the last day of registration and pose problems for students to make timely progress to their degree.


F: What is the plan for once this is compiled and put together.


A: This has become first priority.† I would hope in all of our required courses we are providing sufficient number of sections for students to get the classes needed for their degree.


F:† Is there any kind of a time frame for this?


A:† I would like to think itís probably a two year.†


F: Its not just in lower division its in upper division.


A: There are three issues in course availability, one is not enough seats.†† The second is scheduling issues that lead to course availability issues.† I think we have scheduling issues out there and third sometimes a section may be full and a student doesnít know how to find another section.


F: As a teacher of one of the courses on the list, in my course every student that came to see me called me or e-mailed me got in.† Iíd like to reiterate the difference between what students want and what they need.† This document represents a snapshot in time and it represents the past.† Programs are changing and some of the elements that are identified here will not be presented as problems in the future.† Faculty are no longer offering anything other than what are required in some departments.




Adm:† Recruitment is up because we called them and gave them personal attention.† In the college a faculty member picked it up and called. We need to work together on this.